Thursday, February 03, 2005 - Posts

Thursday, February 03, 2005
rant on the proposed social security reform

Privatizing Social Security Will Shortchange Your Retirement

in response for something my brother sent on.  ohh, i'm gonna take a beating for this one:


although i agree with the sentiment, and the conclusion, some (not all) of the "facts" here are as much bullshit - and irrelevant - as what the administration is selling.  which is a shame, because it can only serve to discredit what is otherwise a correct cause.
 
one thing i never hear mentioned is why we still pay social security benefits to people with already healthy post-retirement incomes.
 
well, the thing about social security, is that people are not putting money into an account.  that's a fallacy.  the program is for those who have financial difficulties, it's not another savings account - it's a _tax_, it's a social program, it's a redistribution of wealth.  that's why it's called "social security" and not "poor man's savings plan" - of course they can't afford it.  and it should be phased out for those with less need.  it is so small it will make little difference to those folks anyway.
 
but you're right, it's a greed thing, not a rational thing.  these people seem to "blame" poverty on the poor, and think a fitting punishment for such a "choice" is to suffer in old age, if not sooner.
 
but everyone tries to get a piece of everyone else.  it's just that the more successful at it have the means to rewrite history a bit.
 
one last thing, apart from all my cynicism:  the problem period for social security is a temporary one.  once the boomers start dying off things will get better, may even result in windfalls.  a temporary (30 years or so) tax increase (3-5% ? [ie, to 10% from 7%]) to match the boom period would work just fine, and wouldn't really take much away from those taxed, as it would go right back into the economy.
 
but the privatization - _that_ money can be scooped up by the rich, which is much more difficult with social security.  oh, they do it, but they have to jump through a lot of regulatory hoops to make it happen, and they can't quite get it all.  but once the money is on the open market, they can capture it at will.
 
oh, well, i'm writing an essay anyway, so i may as well continue:  it's been long recognized in the pension industry that private individuals do not have access to the resources, knowledge and time required to successfully save for retirement.  and even if they did, they are not inclined to do so.  the reason for all the "don't touch" rules is that people will squander pretty much anything they get their hands on.  and the rich will squander _other's_ money as well.  so of course, after privatizing social security, the next step will be to loosen the rules that protect those accounts, letting people pull the money out - to give to guess who ?
 
now, i'm not sure what will be done with the resulting rampant pverty.  but at that point the american public will be indistinguishable from the legalized "illegal" immigrants from mexico.  not that they will be getting much when they arrive:  also in that time frame most of the global economy will have shifted to asia.  and the successors to today's conservative rich neo-cons will have abandoned their fleeced religious right suckers - and the rest of us - for the markets over there as well.
 
a scorched earth policy, but hey, it doesn't affect _them_.
 
Posted by fractalnavel at 11:17 PM | 1 comment(s)
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crossing the line into mysticism; limits to knowledge
craig:
Ever heard of this guy?

David Bohm

Looks like some interesting books.
me:
famous name in physics, but i never really looked into his stuff. looks like he fell into the same mysticism crap that so many physicists of his generation did.
craig:
Ha! I knew you'd say that :) We should have a snigglet for physicists interested in mysticism. It's almost a oxymoron eh?
me:
oxymoron ?  unfortunately, that doesn't apply, it denotes a contrast, and "mysticist physicists" are all too common.  it _should_ be oxymoronic, if there were such a compound term.  seems to me you're looking for a term denoting their near interchangeability, in some cases.
 
knew _i'd_ say that. gee, what tipped you off ?  hmm, well ok.  so clearly you yourself are aware of the potential contradictions in such material.  yet you continue to be fascinated by them.  still looking for a soul, perhaps ?  the inexplicable got you worried ?
 
yet sometimes what _is_ of interest in that subject matter is that right at the edge before they fall off into the mystical, the thinking processes get very interesting, and there starts to develop the potential for patterns of solution.  then it's as if their brains break, and poof! there they go.  seems, maybe, that if they could suspend that impulse indefinitely, and continue on in the rational mode, that there is where genius lies.  but many fail.  or so far, apparently _all_.  the string theorists took a different route, backing away from the edge, applying interesting maths, yet they have not run into the urge for mysticism.  kinda makes me think they aren't near anything.  also, it seems that any system of sufficient complexity can be claimed to have explanatory power for systems of arbitrary configuration.   think of it as a sort of corollary to godel's theorem; it seems to be in the same concept space, anyway.  oddly, the fermi paradox and the (fallacies of the) drake equation seem related as well.
 
the assumption is that the "solution" to the universe is found in mathematics.  this may or may not be true. if not - interesting things follow.  if so, then one should be able to compare the complexity, etc. of the system being explained with the system proposed for the explanation, and thereby describe some bounding nature of the minimum and maximum complexity of the solution, etc.  in fact, there should be sufficient description of the nature of solution sets in general.  in other words, no need for occam's razor (ockham, whatever), since _all_ approaches should be described at that level, and it is that superset that should be the "correct" solution.
 
but it is possible, as it is with some computer programs, that the only description possible is complete emulation.  in other words, an algorithm cannot be produced that is shorter than the output itself.  mathematics - any language - is a form of algorithmic shorthand.
 
so it seems to be that there is much undisciplined and ill considered effort in the sciences.  a metascience is needed to forge an improved - a _scientific_ - approach to science.  this does get written about here and there, but is not a separate discipline. philosophy of science seems the closest.  (what i'm looking for might be described as a "metascience engineer")
 
so, mysticism.  it seems to arise due to this lack of discipline.  of course, if, for example, it could be concluded that the solutions are _not_ found in mathematics, these types would have a field day.  still, there must be a rational form of expression exterior to mathematics, still contained within the bounds of reality.  but due to complexity and other concerns, such things may not be "knowable" to the likes of us.  this concept could use more work as well, since if we could determine the limits of our own knowability (our relationship with reality), we may also be able to posit the minimum system which does possess sufficient knowability (in relation to the system in question - here, the universe). 
 
but i would think, considering that all is part of a total indivisible system, that if "we" cannot know something, that, by definition, includes all we can create or become.  conversely, if anything on that creative/evolutionary path can know something, that is "we" - but perhaps not here/now, to "our" (more limited form) personal satisfactions.
 
the unknowability case is interesting, because it would mean that such knowledge would alway remain foreign to anything we can accomplish, throughout eternity.  which defines a bounded subjective universe, the limits of our potential experiential existence.  and i think that such limits _do_ exist - _must_ exist.  kind of a "no shit" moment.  so, the dominoes begin to topple backwards through all this - meaning, in many undertakings, we can't get there from here.
 
and so we fill the gaps with mysticism.  may as well; perhaps it's the best we can ever do.  and if you don't like that conclusion, then you must dismiss the mysticism.
craig:
Those are some cool thoughts. Enjoyed reading it. I think everyone has the right to have flights of fancy, especially if you are an intelligent person skilled in a complex art like physics. I think you have to go over the edge sometimes with your thoughts. But you must come back. Like science, lets stick it in this chamber and see what happens when we blast it with neutrons. When you go off into mysticism lala land and return, I think you've fundamentally changed your brain at some level. Some may call it brain damage, some call it a reboot, a new perspective. Of course you have to have the discipline to not let the crazy shit you considered in lala land cloud your real thinking. The crazy shit sort of smacks your brain with a bat but don't use the bat to pound out a theorem. I think why I enjoy reading crazy shit like this guy is writing is that it forces me to educate or reaffirm what I know. I know these guys are way way out there, just like scifi books by Baxter, lot of hand waving. For instance saying the Higgs boson is some kind of god particle and proceed to worship the Higgs particle, forces me to either hit the internet to update myself on the Higgs particle or shake my head in disbelief realizing how fragile the whole particle zoo really is. God is not a quark! Stick that in your sig! ;) I do find it funny when you always think I'm a lost soul searching for god, answers to the inexplicable, etc. I think maybe you are overlaying some of yourself on to me. Which is fine since that's kind of normal, how else are we to understand people other than through our own eyes.

Dang you really have a good grasp on what I guess you could call the concept of metaknowledge. People hate to hear that there may be a limit to our brains. I did some reading on Godel awhile back and it is interesting that mathematicians nod in agreement that mathematics is ultimately broken but kind of ignore that fact and continue on. I would think that using the knowledge of the Godel limit would help you in your thinking? Maybe not. Kind of like the blind guys trying to figure out if they touching an elephant or a couch. Hey guys you are limited to an animal, now try again. Anyway perhaps a discussion on why people are uncomfortable with the idea of limited knowledge would be fun. We have brains, we better than animals . And we've seen what happens when we stop considering ourselves animals...Food for thought.. or thoughts from food..ha!
me:
"a quark is not god", you mean ;-)
 
are the concepts of mysticism and the possibility of complete knowledge mutually exclusive ?  seems so, yet it also seems to be the same peronality type that believes in both.  typical irrationalism.
 
the flights of fancy are fine with me.  just don't try and pass it off as science, as you say.  i think imaginative processes can be helpful, but you are right, there are some damaging patterns as well.  irreversible ?  probably not.  i guess it depends on your definition of "damage", since even if eventually reversed, the interim period could be considered irretrievable opportunity lost.  or it may depend on the net gain or loss over all periods resulting from various mental excursions.  in which case, the equations could drastically change with significantly increased (or decreased) life spans.
 
(damage, eh.  then are the scifi flights of fancy potentially damaging, sometimes, too ?)
 
interesting - which means, of course, that our lifespans are fundamental to our worldviews.  but the practical extension of this - what would religions look like, for example ?  would more (or less) bizarre mental - and cultural - excursions be acceptable ?  heinlein and robinson have played with longevity and a bit of its impact on worldview.  not enough, though.
 
i suspect the limits on knowledge are more fundamental than biology (and physics) - our brains are not the problem.  if there is a limit to rational expressive systems themselves, then _no_ existence can become arbitrarily knowledgeable.  and it doesn't even matter how you define "knowledge".  yet unknowability is not support for irrationalism. (and this fact is important to the study of probablility and "uncertainty", which is where many physicists "lose it".)
 
yep, i am projecting my own past onto your interest there, i think.  that's not where i currently am, however.  i guess i just don't see the attraction of that stuff otherwise.  just enjoying their flights of fancy, then ?  as fiction ?  "it forces me to educate or reaffirm what I know" - how so ?  what is it that you "know" ?
 
yep, knowing constraints and (formerly) implicit assumptions is helpful.  they may or may not be relevant to the day to day work of some mathematicians (and physicists), hard to say when it applies ahead of time.  but hindsight does seem to show cases where such explicit considerations were ignored, with unfortunate consequences.  and sometimes we may never know what roads were never traveled.
 
Posted by fractalnavel at 5:50 PM | 1 comment(s)
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